Thomas Prisloe Signature Model / Jose Ramirez III Clase 1A 1980 / 1981 / Jose Ramirez II 1945

A rather mysterious model from this New York based builder 

as Thomas Prisloe had some special series built in Spain.

They come under the name Pavan guitars and are built to his specs. 

But the label from this particular guitar states the soundboard to be 

produced by Mr. Prisloe himself. Well, the name has indeed been 

placed several times on the inside of the soundboard. Pricewise this 

guitar falls into another category as the more regular Pavan guitars

such as TP-10, TP-20 and TP-30. Another difference is the use of

Engelmann spruce (?) Prisloe uses for his own handbuilt models.

Some outer visible specific things on this serie can be seen

on this guitar as well. The ebony reinforcement at the back

of the neck and the headshape that is reminiscent to the

well known Torres design. Year of production: 2008. After

some mail contact things are becoming clear: It was a

needful move after having received some PAVAN guitars

with a cracked top. Mr. Prisloe states this to be in 2008 and

followed the procedure of building a new top himself for

about 6 times. A very explainable move and as the sound-

board still is the "heart" of a guitar it can be this good!

The headshape with some additional carvings which

is of course a classic one on Spanish guitars. The square

spaced room for the tuner rollers is a bit of a Fleta move

though more builders have used it in the past.

At first we thought the tuners to be from Schaller. They work 

very well! Mr. Prisloe states the tuners to be from Gotoh: 

Concert model. They work very smooth and in fact better 

than the Spanish Fustero tuners placed on most top concert 

Spanish guitars.

A narrow grained soundboard that is almost white, probably

due to its' life in the suitcase up until now. This instrument

is dated 2008 ( series 6 ) Engelmann spruce is more white

compared to Sitka spruce. But simple daylight already does

a lot to the color of the spruce soundboards over time.

Thomas Prisloe handsigned this label not withstanding the 

regular Pavan guitar labels that aren't signed at all.

The guitar body's own frequency lies on a G# which

means around 92,5 Hz.

Presented here is the soundboard bracing. Mind you, the

transverse bars still have to be placed on this picture of

course. Another remark has to be made as this soundboard

has been "arched" a bit. The advantage is that it becomes

stiffer and withhold the string tension better while making

the sound board thinner. Often called a "doomed"  top. The

two "closing ribs" Thomas Prisloe calls a "Chevron"

construction. The way the bracing has been done on this

picture is identical to the one used in the TP 30 model.

The prices for this model is about 1000 USD on the

second hand market. A 650  and a 640 mm scale 

model can be ordered.

Also the rosette deserves attention as it is a really 

tasteful one and finely executed. This rosette appears to

be exactly the same as on the Thomas Prisloe concert

guitars from 2008 ( Entirely built bij Prisoe in New York)

Some remarks can be made about this guitar. It has lots' of 

volume and it vibrates really well in the lower registers. 

The higher notes are there as well and even with a nice bass 

support probably due to the way Prisloe places his bracing 

on the soundboard: a 6 fan bracing with closing ribs but 

the bass and treble side are divided in exact two parts. The 

bass side having more struts (1) compared to the treble side.

The number "6"  on the label most likely is referring to at

least 6 PAVAN guitars that were delivered in his shop with

a cracked top. He replaced them with a soundboard entirely 

made by himself. Mr. Prisloe wasn't sure about the 

number of guitars he rebuilt in this manner. Another

example we found with the number 13 inside so this

process remains a bit of a mystery.

A nice shot of the GOTOH tuners with a visible screw

at the bottom of the plastic knobs. Thomas Prisloe started 

the Santa Fe Spruce company to provide other luthiers with

the so called Engelmann spruce soundboards.

Jose Ramirez III 1A guitar 1980

This 1980 clase 1A model was built by Enrique

Borreguero who's father was a very fine luthier
as well. Very good condition though the fretwork
was worn out. When placing new frets, the 
fingerboard will be flattened out keeping in mind that 
the upper bass side allways has some give to let the 
lower string vibrate freely. Apart from that the 
action at the bridge can be corrected for optimal
playability and small damages to the fingerboard
itself can be cured.
  

Both sides and back are remarkably straight grained.

Maybe not that attractive but it helps for optimal
stability of the wood regarding cracks in the future.

This guitars' own frequency lies on the note A so

in Hz that would be 110 Herz.
  

This label states that between this example and the following
guitar 400 guitars clase 1A have been constructed at the
Ramirez shop. It was booming business in those days.
Apart from the superb sound, most striking detail in comparison
with most other José Ramirez clase 1A guitars is that the sides
in the soundbox are not strenghtened with a layer of cypress
as was common or even partly covered with a rosewood
layer as can be seen on the Camara models. No, this
guitar has been entirely covered with a rosewood layer from
the inside of its' soundbox. So no solid sides but instead
of cypress, rosewood has been used. This message puzzled
Amalia Ramirez as well though she thinks it to be another
experiment executed by her father José Ramirez III.

José Ramirez III clase 1 A (1981)

This eighties Ramirez guitar has been obtained quite
recently. Though it suffered from some humidity damage
its sound was wonderful. Huge volume and the tonal
qualities are exceptional. Beautiful rounded tone for
all frequency registers. You should listen to the Ramirez
guitar on one of the Andres Segovia Youtube movies:
Andres Segovia demonstrates different timbres of the
guitar. The same sounds!



Though the humidity has caused a crack behind the bridge
that was deformed I had to make a device in order to bent
the sides of the crack back. There was enough wood so
after the operation it could easily be glued together.
To my surprise it had a significant effect on the overall
tone production: Even better! Moreover the action was 

way too high. That has been solved by shaving away the

fingerboard towards the head in order to create another

angle neck / body. A refret job was necessary of course.

For those who are keen on labels: the blue rounded Ramirez 

label is a sign of quality and the eighties Ramirez guitars 

are known for their sweet voice. This one has been made 

by Juan Garcia Ray though it bears the number 6 which

stands for Arturo Sanzano. I recently visited the Ramirez 

workshop in Madrid where they looked it up for me.

Juan Garcia is no longer member of the workstaff.

There is a site where they give you an explanation of all 

initials they used up until 1991. Amalia Ramirez states

 that their best instruments aren't allways built by the best 

craftsmen as the combination of woods, circumstances 

while built and tension between the different parts and 

woods available also attribute to the final sound result.

This list has been published by the Guitar Salon, however

several luthiers also had their initials on the inner heel or

just a number for recognition.

Here are the numbers under which employees of the Ramirez workshop are known.

- Manuel Alonso Giménez .................... MAG (1), later nº 18

-Cayetano Álvarez Luna ................................ (2)

-José Luis Álvarez Mariblanca .......... JLA, later nº 15

-Paulino Bernabé Almendáriz ...................... PB

-Carlos Blanco Peña ................ CB (3), later nº 20

-Enrique Borreguero Marcos .............. EB (4), later nº 17

-Manuel Cáceres Pizarro ................. MC, later nº 8

-Alfonso Contreras Valbuena ............. AC, later nº 7

-Pedro Contreras Valbuena ........................ PC (5)

-José Flores Duró ....................... JF, later nº 3

-Juan García Rey ....................... JG, later nº 9

-Manuel González Contreras ....................... MG

-Pedro Jiménez Posadas .......... PJ (6), later nº 16

-José López Cubillo ................. JL (6), later nº 12

-Carmelo Llerena Martínez ......................... CLL, later nº 4

-Miguel Malo Martínez .................. MM, later nº 1

-Féliz Manzanero Cabrera .......................... FM

-Pedro Manzanero Cabrera ........................ (7)

-Ignacio Manzano Rozas ............................ I M

-Antonio Martínez Ortega .......................... AM

-Julián Moraga Rodríguez ...................... JM (8), later nº 19

-Fernando Morcuende de Cruz .................. FM, later nº 5

-Ramón Peñalver Soler ................................. (9)

-Teodoro (Goyo) Pérez Mariblanca ........... GP, later nº 13

-José Romero Garrido...........JRG, later nº 14

-Manuel Rodríguez Fernández .................... (10)

-Arturo Sanzano Moreno .................... AS, later nº 6

-Mariano Tezanos Castro ..................... MTC (11), later nº 10

-Mariano Tezanos Martín .................. MT, later nº 2

-Juan Miguel Guardiola Moreno ................. MAG, later nº 11

-José Ramírez IV ......................................... 0 (12)

-Amalia Ramírez ............................................. (13)

NOTES: arriba/top

(1) Although these were his initials, I believe he never used them: he used a number
(2) He didn't have initials, when he made guitars, he used those of Pedro Contreras, PC
(3) The same as (1)
(4) The same as (1) & (3)
(5) Shared inicials with Cayetano Álvarez
(6) His surname is Jiménez, not Giménez; in addition, his name is Pedro - I have no record of Manuel
(7) He has no initials because he never made guitars
(8) The same as (1), (3) &(4)
(9) Although he was the first disciple that he had, the same as: (7)
(10) He was not a disciple of José Ramírez III, he was a workmate, but he left before developing all his inovations. He's a disciple of José Ramírez II
(11) He also used the initials MT, but with the T inverted, in order to distinguish him from his father
(12) He normally didn't use initials, although at the beginning, in some guitars, he used "O". If he should use them, they would be JER
(13) She doen't use initials on her guitars, although should she do so they would be AR.

Notes by Amalia Ramírez, August 2000

Jose Ramirez II guitar (1945)

Presented here is a Jose Ramirez II guitar from 1945.

It is well known there was a shortage of about everything 

just after World War II and the Civil War that ended in 1939.

This example has a spruce top with a seven fan bracing.

Ebonized fingerboard with copper fretwork. Brasilian

rosewood bridge with the well known ornamentation

from that period. Some odd things can be found on

this guitar as it has the bigger Blue / white label normally

found on the higher end student models. But the label

has been signed in blue ink (probably the maker) and

most likely afterwards with "J. Ramirez" done by (???)

Scale length: 650 mm - Length of the body: 477 mm -

Neck width: 50 mm (at top nut) Upper Bout: 255 mm

Waist: 218 mm - Lower bout: 342 mm - Depth: 

Varying from 80 to 90 mm (Bottom)

It is obvious that the soundbox has been built with

Cypress but this guitar lacks the golpeadores found on

a real flamenco guitar. Also the bridge height itself is

that of a classical guitar. This instrument produces a

somewhat dry but sweet and "complete'  sound. Very 

even in all registers. In the book "The Ramirez Collection"

written by Brian Whitehouse there is a sound example

included of a 1946 guitar built by Jose Ramirez III.

This guitar is slightly bigger but has the 50 mm nut

width and a seven fan soundboard strutting as well.

The 1946 guitar has been built with better materials

as on most Ramirez guitars of this time a fairly wide

grained soundboard can be found.

Some people will say: Mahogany veneered but close

inspection learns otherwise: This wood is too fine

grained. The typical head form also found on his

concert models is there and the use of metal rollers

can be a later addition as are the tuners as a whole.

Probably this guitar was fitted with tuning pegs

regarding its' weight. a cedar neck that has been 

executed very good. 

In order to make this instrument playable again I had

to shave the fingerboard a bit towards the head. By

that time it became obvious that the fingerboard had

been ebonized in the past. I matched the color close

to the veneering of the head and placed new frets.

As the original top nut was broken I changed it

with an ivory one and I had to lower it a bit as at

that point the fingerboard had been lowered by

about 2 mm. As the frets are a bit higher now this

guitar plays much better though the width at the

nut could have been a bit more spaced.

I suspect these tuners to be quite old as well. They

still work well but aren't securely mounted. The same 

thing can be said about the restorations on this guitar. 

And the question remains: "are they original" as the

thickness of the head varies. So I think this guitar

originally was provided with pegs. These tuners

gave too much problems so I decided to change them 

as well. Schaller tuners have been added now but

being too long for this guitar another extra move

was necessary: The Lyre had to be removed.

These tuners work very well and the original drilled

holes in the head could be reused again. A must!

A simple but gracefully executed rosette. Jose Ramirez II

however will not be remembered as a Rosette maker. 

Some of his guitars even had Rosettes made out of simple 

concentric circles. We have to remember there was a 

shortage of all kinds of materials. This kind of inlay can

also be found on Ramirez guitars of the thirties and even

the following rosette from a Domingo Esteso guitar from

1930 has some similarities.

As for labels: The site of Guitarrasramirez speaks of

the white / blue label being used in student models only.

However there are several guitars from the thirties and forties

that have the larger blue label but aren't meant to be student 

guitars. It will probably count for the fifties guitars onwards.

A picture of the bigger blue / white label but signed

anyway. In the middle left the name J Ramirez can

be found but this can be a later addition. The fact that

the signature has been placed partly over the label and the 

wood surrounding it confirms this instrument to be a

genuine Jose Ramirez II. James Greenberg from 

Zavaletas guitars who holds an incredibly inventory

of older classical guitars confirms this big signature

to be from Jose Ramirez III. Hopefully Amalia

Ramirez will confirm it as well in the near future.

Around 1945 there weren't that many luthiers at work

in the Ramirez workshop so maybe we can solve the

mystery about who placed it. The top of this guitar

has been mounted with individual blocks and the 7 fans

are quite small in width (4 mm) and height (3 mm).

Also the seam between the two halves of the back have

been glued together with blocks. Besides the label

this guitar has two stamps: Both near the heel block on

the soundboard and back. Most likely a sign that it has 

been built in Madrid and not in Valencia though the

neck to body construction looks quite Valencia!

Amalia Ramirez states that her father sometimes 

signed the older guitars and then stopped for a while. 

After seeing this picture she states that the signature

does not belong to her father (Jose Ramirez III) but

possibly to her grandfather.

As I already explained this is a Valencian type of neck to

body joint. But it is known that Barbero also constructed

the heels this way. The inner heel however looks entirely 

hardwood to me and the form resembles a lot the thirties 

Santos Hernandez heels.

A comment on the bridge has to be made here as the

form as well as the inlays and the mother of pearl covering 

of the stringblock is pointing towards Ricardo Sanchis 

Nacher. These kind of bridges have been seen on other 

Jose Ramirez II guitars of the forties.